You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of democracy, social justice and the equality of mankind in your own native soil. [Mohammed Ali Jinnah]

Sunday, November 30, 2008

Mumbai Attacks and Indian Stupidity

Fahad Fazl sent a message to the members of Pakistan Tehreek i insaf on Facebook.

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Subject: Mumbai terror Attacks

First of all i will strongly condemn these brutal attacks on mumbai.

Recently an indian Army officer is found guilty of planning terror attacks on a train in india, the train name is Samjhota express which operate between india and Pakistan. In this train attack mostly Pakistanies were killed on indian side of region. And some army officers who are having some connections with hindu extremist organizations are found guilty.

Currently there are seperatest movements going on throughout india. India has around 600 districts out of which more than 200 districts have their sepratist movements. Every year thousand of people die in india in result of clashes between these movements and indian government. None of these movement has any link to PAkistan.

The point which i am trying to make is that india has so much terrorist movements in their homeland and still they are blamming on Pakistan without having any evidence.

On the otherside if we will see Pakistan's, they never pointed fingur towards india even after having very solid evidence of indian involvement in Balochistan and NWFP. It also doesnot make sense that why india has opened more than 25 offices in afghanistan along the pakistani border, it clearly shows that india is sending insurgents from Afghanistan side into the Pakistan who are de-stabilizing the tribal region of Pakistan and also inside Pakistan. There is a large increase in suicide attacks inside PAkistan, which is all due to that insurgency from Afghanistan side. But even having so many casualties in these suicide attacks for example the suicide attack of Marriot hotel destroyed whole hotel and killed alot of innocent people, Pakistan never blamed india because Pakistan want good diplomatic relations with India. But on the other side india never wants some good relations and always tried to invoke Pakistan by putting more and more terrorist inside Pakistan. These terrosit make
an excuse for USA to do more drone attacks inside Pakistan and US also want Pakistan to do military operations in tribal regions to kill alot of innocent civilians and at the end Pakistan suffers from all sides.

I was listening to BBC most of the time and i saw one common thing in Indian and International media that they all are pointing their fingures towards Pakistan without having any evidence.
So it looks similar to 9/11 when american media started blaming Alqaida and Taliban immediately and then whole international media did the same and then they wage a war against Afghanistan.
I think this mumbai attacks are also similar kind of practice and they want to build a case against Pakistan to wage war might be from western borders in tribal region or might be from eastern borders.

At this very moment Pakistanies should get ready for any kind of Indian stupidity and this time India will not be alone, all the western (US and NATO) will be along with india. So what i see unfortunately it seems that Pakistan is once again going to have some hard time. But inshAllah we will manage to get out of it. Be United, be faithful to your country and be desciplined thats all we need.

For people from other countries i just want to show the real ground truth and real situation to all of you. I hope you will not close your eyes and will not believe only on the media which is always biased. I hope you will look into all details and then will decide who is right and who is wrong. Unfortunately all the international media is always following a guideline given to them and they never do critical analysis of the situation.

Thanks for spending time to read this article
GOD BLESS U
Long Live Pakistan

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Could you also share your thoughts about the US forces' repeated intrusions inside Pakistan.Thank you.

Anonymous said...

if there was a terror attack on the man in the moon, it would be linked in some way to Pakistan. We, my dear sir, are THE hub for terror. And we will continue to be so for as long as we hide our heads in the sand.

Mohammad Ali said...

If you really want to put a message across while making it a point to highligh what RAW has done, why dont we keep in mind what our beloved ISI had done in India over the years. remember the Khalistan insurgency, the operation blue star and killing of Indira Gandhi happened only after that. The 2nd Kashimir rising from 1987 onwards, The Kargil fiasco, Plane hijacking of 70's by Kashimir muslims in which hijackers were given political asylum by Pakistan and the plane destoryed? , plane hijacking in 1985 by sikhs, they too were given political asylum. and many many more.

There certainly have been seperatist movements, notably Assam, Tamil Nadu & Kashmir, but I dont know about over 200 separatist movements. There certainly is no pakistani/muslim connection to it, but such an organised reaction is by far, superseding there capabilities.

Indian people are hurt at the moment, they certainly are on the recieving side.

As foolish as it is to blame Pakistan rightaway, blaming Indian RAW or any other organisation is same foolishness. You said in your post India has no proof to blame it on Pakistan, what proof do you have to blame it on RAW ???????????????

Its this hardline attitude by some quarters of both indian and pakistani people which leads to blame games and conflicts.

People, think rationally, think humanly, think of the future!!!

Zeeshan Ali Rana said...

well i'd disagree tht its only some quarters on indian side which have this hardline attitude... its the whole india infact... see any indian news channel... see the press conferences by their govt. officials... on the contrary u'll not see such hardline attitude from pakistani side when sth happens in the pakistan...

well if one can feel for indians since they r on the receivin side, then y cannt one feel for pakistan??? india was on the receivin side 2, 3 days ago... its pakistan now on the receivin side dude... we r being blamed... we r being threatened for no reason... i feel for it, i feel for pakistan... pakistan have adopted a soft approach at many occasions in the past but wht have we gained from the soft approach??? threats, bad name n thts it!

it could have helped if, instead of posting just here, u had went on many indian forums and tell them to think rationally... stop blamin pakistan... ask them to stop support balochistan insurgency... ask them to stop violence in khi...

when india can blame pakistan without proof just coz they r hurt, then y cannt the author of the above email blame RAW without proof just coz his country is hurt... his country faces even a bigger threat... i dont see any problem in blaming india in response to the baseless indian allegations...

tit for tat!!!

btw u can see who can benefit from the current incidents from ghulam murtaza's comment on http://riseofpakistan.blogspot.com/2008/11/blame-game-is-on-south-asia-walking-on.html

Mohammad Ali said...

" when india can blame pakistan without proof just coz they r hurt, then y cannt the author of the above email blame RAW without proof just coz his country is hurt... his country faces even a bigger threat... i dont see any problem in blaming india in response to the baseless indian allegations...

tit for tat!!! "

that kind of attitude, be it from pakistani or Indian side, is what we require at this moment the least. I just hope, people on both sides realize this.

Zeeshan Ali Rana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Zeeshan Ali Rana said...

i got ur point ali... but the info u provided abt ISI can be found on many indian websites and forums... the whole india propagates it...

but we keep quite against indian n american acts... we know how RAW n CIA r operating from afghanistan, but we seal our lips... where can we find anti RAW n CIA propaganda??? if ever we find it, it is termed as conspiracy theory :)

my point is to counter the propaganda n not to close our eyes... be it in a polite manner or in an offensive tone... i'll stick with my own tone, u plz carry on with urs :) but plz plz plz do not be unnecessarily apologetic... do not hesitate to mention indian role in afghanistan.... there is no use of admitting wht ISI does, its now the time tht india also accepts wht damage RAW has done to pakistan n other neighbors...

Anonymous said...

when Indian government can show irresponsibility and accuse Pakistan I do not know why do Pakistanis (as individuals) avoid (and advise to avoid) talking harsh against them? Pakistani government does not have to act as attacking, irresponsible and immature while responding to Indian allegations, but they should keep a certain level of offense in their response. At the same time individuals have the right to show their resentment and use harsh words. I think we should urge Indian government to get mature. India calls itself a democracy, it portrays itself as a moderate and responsible secular state. But the current response of Indians (the government) is beyond imagination.

Rohit said...

I can't imagine most Indians want war. But you have to understand how horrific these attacks are and how much anguish this has caused. We feel insecure.


Most Indians recognize that we have several internal problems. The Prime Minister has repeatedly talked about the Naxalite threat. The ATS recently even brought about considerable evidence to Hindu Fundamentalists engaging in terror tactics. However, its quite clear that the attacks in Mumbai were not carried out by Assamese militants, Andhra Naxalites or RSS types. Even if they were helped by local groups (no evidence to that has emerged) its clear that they didn't distinguish between Hindu's or Muslims, Indians or foreigners. (a third of those dead are Muslim)


Most Pakistani's I know are well aware of groups working in Pakistan several of whom have attacked the Pakistani state and civil society. Most Pakistanis condemn them and see them as a threat to their way of life. (The Marriot bombing comes to mind). It is admitted that there are groups operating within Pakistan that are promoting violence. It is also clear that government is unable to reign them in. For the safety of Indians and Pakistanis, they must be reigned in. The question to be debated is "how"


Therefore I do not understand why everyone here is choosing to go into a state of denial. It isn't helpful and is dangerous for us all.

Anonymous said...

"Indian people are hurt at the moment, they certainly are on the recieving side."

Most certainly I feel for the innocent victims and their families in Mumbai, but what about the Pakistani people. Aren't they on the recieving side for the last so many years. India is openly hostile and it is a proven fact that India wants to destabilize Pakistan. At a time when India, USA and Israel are working to weaken ISI, which is the backbone of Pakistan's defence, going out of our way to critisize ISI is highly stupid. At a time like this we must put up a united front, something which even the politicians are doing this time it seems. When a hostile Inidan media says that the DG ISI has been "summoned", we should not start playing in their hands and adopt the same tone for ISI.

And blaming Pakistan for these attacks seems quite absurd. 20 people trained by Rehman Chacha moving in through the sea route attacking 10 places and surviving for 3 nights. Black cats unable to do anything. Sounds like the plot of a superman james bond movie.

Mohammad Ali said...

ISI is much more than just the 'backbone' of defence. Its naive to think of it in these terms. It is the very reason for our situation, whatever the bad sitation we are in, ISI has a major role to play.

Don't you realize they have never let our political system alone. We have never gone half a step beyond elections in 90 days and then nothing.

Army chiefs, in past have confessed under oath to have broken political governments using ISI. Election rigging, making political alliances, breaking governments , so much so as to exiling and eliminating prominent politicians, artists, writers, educationists, journalists & what not.

Then, it is the jihadi outfits. ISI trained them and used them in Afghanistan, since the incubation of that operation havent we seen our country going from bad to worse ? They started that in 1983, we were engulfed by sectarian violence in 1985 till better part of 90's. Then we came close to war with India 3 times, owing simply to the actions of these trained, armed mercenary armies.

Their list of crimes is doesnt ends here. The "musical chairrs" round of 90's where no govt was allowed to run for more than 30 months was orchestrated in such a manner, that when Military came into power, everyone of us was of the view that may be its a better option than the ones we had earlier.

WE have been played by them, earlier in the name of religion, & I would certainly not like to get played here in the name of Patriotism.

What united front are you talking about ? The only combined front a nation can put up, is the unity of its differremt sections of society. One by One they are all being marginalized at the hands of our beloved military. Whether its Balocuhistan, FATA, SWAT , NWFP in general ??????

If I just give you the exact counts of former ISI & Army chiefs confessing to its acts, you would run out of ink and paper.

My fellow country man, I am pointing out one element in our country which is actively bent upon taking us apart in order to conserve the power & rule to itself. be it ISI in specific or Army in general!

Anonymous said...

When our state institutions come under discussion, we do not hesitate to use aggressive language, and start telling the stories which are already very well known. We do not hesitate to spoil the image of our own institutions, be it ISI, Army, judiciary or any other institution. I can see from this blog that there are people who believe that the Jihadis are still operating and terrorizing India and Pakistan. Hence we keep bashing them as well.

On the other hand, when a non-pakistani or non-islamic state or institution comes under attack, we Pakistanis stand up to defend it. And we do not defend it with an argument, but we do it by contaminating our own institutions' names. I see it as a clear bias in the kind of Pakistanis who have been brainwashed against Islam, Taliban, ISI and Army.

An obvious proof of this evident bias of such people can be seen in the comments posted here. For example, the original post was an expression of anger and the person who sent it simply wanted to make a point that Pakistan has nothing to do with the Mumbai attacks and should not be blamed, just because ISI has done something in past. Why is Pakistan always blamed blatantly? Why does not Pakistan blame India even when the government and the agencies are convinced that India plays negative role in Balochistan? Then the sender said to the Pakistanis,

"Be United, be faithful to your country and be desciplined thats all we need." This was not a bad call I guess :)
He pointed out that the media is very biased, and while addressing the people from other countries he said: "I hope you will look into all details and then will decide who is right and who is wrong."
When I look at the above points made by the sender, I do not see any hardline attitude in that at all. But one of the comments on the post said:

"Its this hardline attitude by some quarters of both indian and pakistani people which leads to blame games and conflicts"

In my opinion the commenting person conceived the email differently.

The same person also slammed ISI which was not even in the discussion. This bashing of ISI at this point in response to this post is beyond my understanding (I am afraid the commenting person is strongly biased against ISI and kind hearted towards Indian agency and government). The preceding comments then focused on discussing how should and shouldn't we discuss ISI and why should and shouldn't we discuss RAW and ISI.

The point is that, we stopped commenting on the original post, and just because of one almost irrelevant comment, we then shifted our focus. Please get the actual message of the post which is Unity. Please use your conscience to decide what is right and what wrong instead of blindly trusting what the media has been propagating against Pakistan, ISI and the banned Jihadi outfits. Think yourself, when Pakistan has practically banned Lashkar e Tayyeba etc. how can they run their operations without large fundings? They cannot operate for long my friend. I am of teh belief that most of the Jihadis do not even have the resources to operate at a very large scale such as the current Mumbai massacre. Even the muslims fighting in mountains do not have financial support which enough for them to operate across the world. Each of the fighting group is confined to a small area and they cannot get out of it. Please find the other elements which help these people get out of mountains and hit the settled areas in Pakistan.

I'll be very happy to see ISI like bashing of non Pakistani elements too in any of the future posts on this blog. That will help me decide if you guys have a bias or not and if you have been brain washed by the propaganda or not.

Anonymous said...

Zeeshan

Thank you for posting this article.

First, some things we agree on:

While I am Hindu and you are Muslim; I know the things I stand you will stand for: a safe environment for my children, good schools, good job, good career prospects in the future...freedom of speech and freedom to follow my path to God..if our governments could provide that then the rest I will leave in the hands of your God and mine.

With respect to tolerance and stupidity here some facts to think over:

You are inaccurate about 9/11 since AlQaeda and Taliban took responsibility for that Act.

It is true that India does not have friendly relations with its neighbors..and a budding power must be able to make friends with its neighbors. This is a failing of my government and must be rectified and the responsibility always lies with the bigger brother.

It is also true that I have a lot of good Pakistani friends...mostly in the middle-east..and most of them would prefer to live in their home-land but feel insecure or there are not enough opportunities.

Pakistan is spending huge amounts of its budget on military expenditures...I know this is supposed to be because of the Indian giant next door...but the fact is Pakistan has attacked India twice militarily...not the other way around.

In 1947, the economy of Pakistan and India was on par. While India spent little on military it spent enormous amounts on education and infrastructure. Today the economy of India is 50 times the size of Pakistan on a per capita basis.

As a result, today the Pakistan military is a match for a country 6 times its population...but the Pakistan economy is having to get hand-outs from the IMF to pay its bills. This is not right and your government is to blame.

In 1948, after partition, 20% of the population of Pakistan was Hindu and 80% Muslim. Today less than 2% is Hindu. In India, the Muslim population was 8% Muslim in 1948, today it is over 13%.
Pakistan is one of the few countries in the world where the Hindu population has declined.

In India, we have Shah Rukh Khan, Aamir Khan, Shabana Azmi, Azim Premji, Hamid Ansari, Abdul Kalam, Pataudi, etc.....all Muslims but they are great and respected for their achievements not because of their religion which is their private affair.

There is little doubt that India has far surpassed Pakistan on the world stage..it is not because the people are smarter or work harder..we are the same people after all...it is because the Pakistan government has not pursued good policies for its people.

The conflict between our countries has to end. I do not care if it is ISI or CIA or AlQaeda or RAW...you have to know that these conflicts are breaking the long term dreams of the Pakistani people.

Do not think that your government is going to follow good policies without your push...they have not done so for 60 years. It is time for the Pakistani people to rise up and wrest their country from the vested interests.

If you agree with my first paragraph then you know the path to friendship. Focus on our agreements...and build on that. The conflicts then melt away. Those that wish to divide us are forcing us to focus on our differences. It is within us to not allow that to happen.

Salam

Zeeshan Ali Rana said...

Thank you very much my anonymous hindu friend for commenting on this post.

I agree some of you want peace and so do all of us on this side of the border.

But the thing is we on this side of the border want to be respected and do not want to be needlessly involved in any bad event happened in india.

You in your comment criticized pakistan army but did not say a single word abt indian security agencies who have been involved in many inhuman events. You highlighted positives of india and negatives of pakistan. Whereas in an attempt to balance out the propaganda, I'll here try to do the opposite. I'll point out some positive steps taken by pakistan to improve relations with india. I'll further defend pakistan army's steps taken to counter negative attitude of india throughout the 61 years period.

I'll further highlight positive aspects of pakistan and negative aspects of india.

The increase in %age of muslims from 1948 to 2008 in india and decrease in %age of hindus in pakistan for the same years is a very naive measure to believe that india provides a congenial environment to everyone to grow according to hi her will.

An interesting measure to study atrocities of indian forces and civilians on indian muslims and non-hindu people can be the
ratio of number of muslims killed/murdered in india to the number of hindus killed/murdered in india. Also measure the
ratio of number of hindus killed/murdered in india to the number of muslims killed/murdered in paksitan. I m sure you'll
find ur country a worse place for muslims than pakistan is for hindus. The reason of decrease in hindu %age in pakistan from 1948 can be the migration of hindus from pakistan.

If india had these many muslim stars, Pakistan also had a hindu chief justice (CJ) and a christian CJ. We had non muslim players and captains in different sports. We have deepak perwani in showbiz. With respect to the non muslim %age which is only 3 or 4% of pakistan, the minorities have been given representation in the parliament through special seats for them.

Muslim non-muslim riots are a rare event to happen in pakistan, whereas india has a history of genocide of non-hindus in general, and muslims in particular. Pakistan actually is a muslim state and declares itself a muslim state unike india which is a hindu state in disguise.

You mentioned that infrastructure of pakistan and india was at par at the time of partition. But you did not mention tht india didnt allow the transfer of funds to pakistan at the time of partition. India had 65 industries whereas pakistan didnt have a single factory since the areas that came under Pakistan unfortunately were not developed under the British rule.

Pakistan army needed to be strong because it had a cunning, evil and large neighbor which has always tried to destabilize the smaller neighbors. So existence of pakistan army is actually existence of pakistan.

You only criticized ur govt. for not playing a positive role in the region, but you did not mention the negative role played for the destabilization of the region, for example supporting mukti bahni, tamil tigers afghan fighters, baloch pakhtoons. How can anyone justify the existence of about 5 indian consulates in afghanistan alone?

I think indians should think in an unbiased manner and do not forget that Soviet Union has been supplying a barrage of destructive weapons to India for free in past wheras pakistan has always been given void assurances only. Pakistan had to keep the balance of power in the region on its own. Indian nuclear tests in 1974 were ignored by the world, but pakistani test in 1998 resulted in economic sanctions :). Pakistan has always been cursed by the non muslims and i think it is a success for pakistan to still survive in presence of so many enemies.

So when india have always been anti pakistan, pakistan has a threat to its existence. Its the army which keeps india at bay from a conventional fight. That is why army needed to be strong enough. Now imagine for a moment, if india has been friends with pakistan, pakistan would not need this professional army and the extra money utilized on defence could be used for the people of pakistan. So its not appropriate to blame the pakistan army alone for the current state of pakistani people. External factors including india are to be blamed as well.

Pakistan helped india handle the khalistan issue. Pakistan has stepped back from its hard line stand on kashmir and has
shown flexibilities in recent past. But india have always shown arrogant attitude which i m sure will never help the region. Pakistan did not spoil indian image for violating the agreement on use of water. Pakistan did not even threat india coz it violated the pact . India has stopped water flow to pakistan this year causing serious damage to pakistani crops, but did pakistan use offensive means to handle the issue?? Karachi violence started right after mumbai massacre, dont u think pakistan could easily blame india tht it is indian revenge?? Pakistan didnt do tht bcoz is against the diplomatic norms :) and pakistan is sincere in creating peace in the region.

India on the other hand has no such feathers in its cap which can indicate indian sincerity to the peace process. What india has always done is spoil pakistan's image and justify its arrogance. India has delayed the action on UN resolution on kashmir issue which again tells tht india does not want the reolution.

Summary:

To summarize all this, it is pakistan which is a state under threat but indians pose themselves as a state under threat. Pakistan have tried to help india resolve the conflicting issues but india has never reciprocated the pakistani flexibilities. Whenever india and pakistan are on verge of good diplomatic relations and signing of a significant conflict resolving agreement, indian elements stage a terrorist like activity and india immediately stops the talks. If india wants to win against the terrorists, then why doesn't india keep the peace process running and punch them in their face??? India will never do tht bcoz they do wht india wants, i.e. keep the conflicts alive, keep the state of uncertainty in the smaller neighbors, do not let them get stronger... If you see the current situation, kashmir issue was in a position to be resolved. usa wanted india to fulfill its promise of signing the pact drafted by both the states in musharraf regime. But by creating mumbai issue, the indian elements have succeeded in putting this issue in the background and india has openly
blamed pakistan for its failure to stop the attacks.

I m sure you'll agree with me tht keep blaming pakistan for this kind of events and ignoring the extremist elements in its own state will not help india and he region at all. I am confident tht u'll further agree tht peace cannot be achieved untill india stops being arrogant and sincerely tries to have peace.

Dave said...

There is more evidence that the Mumbai terrorists came from Pakistan than there was that Osama Bin Laden was behind 9/11.

But India should not make the same mistake as the US and should show more restraint.

Already Pakistan is falling apart as a nation. In a few years it will break up into 3 or more countries (like Yugoslavia) - a Pashtunistan, a Baluchistan, a Sind and a PakPunjab. If India takes any overt action, this would just unite the Pakistanis and delay the breakup.

Best thing is to let the US handle the terrorists and watch Pakistan fall to pieces on its own

In any case Pakistan has its own karma to reckon with, see http://www.sentfotlife.com/karma.html?Pakistan

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: "Pakistan is spending huge amounts of its budget on military expenditures...I know this is supposed to be because of the Indian giant next door...but the fact is Pakistan has attacked India twice militarily...not the other way around."

Bal Thackray says:“There were differences between us. But Indira had the guts. She attacked Pakistan and helped in getting independence for Bangladesh.”
source: http://arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=117451&d=23&m=12&y=2008&pix=world.jpg&category=World

Anonymous said...

Dont think you can get away with anythin my friends....India will respond with all its might.your terrorists can kill only a few people,but not far from now pakistan will surely be destroyes completely.Even if we loose 1 or 2 cities because of your nuclear weapons,your pakistan will be wiped out of this world.We as Indians will strain ever nerve to achieve this.
Jai Hind